Some thoughts on Iron Man 3

[owlmoose]

Short version: it was fun! Not as good as the first one, but then that’s a pretty high bar. And I think it was better than the second (which, to be fair, is my least favorite of the MCU films). Spoilers beyond.

Good to see that the events of New York — and events from Tony’s life before that, as well — had consequences, and that Tony is having to deal with the fallout even months (years) later, and that the eventual end result of that is his choice to destroy the suits and stop depending on the arc reactor to survive. Anyone else notice that the line at the end of the credits was “Tony Stark Will Return”? Not Iron Man. Tony Stark. And no indication of when, or in what film. Interesting. Of course, if Rhodey and Pepper can activate and use the suits without having a personal arc reactor installed, so can Tony — he doesn’t have to stop being Iron Man. But it’s as though Iron Man has become a choice rather than a necessity. It’s a nice bit of character growth, and I hope we get to see more of it.

I also liked that both Pepper and Rhodey got some moments to step up and kick some ass. Pepper was pushed a little bit far into damsel in distress territory a few times, but not so far that it got to be a real problem, especially given that she came to Tony's rescue more than once. Any bets on whether Tony cured Pepper of all the effects of Extremis? Or did he just stabilize her so she wouldn’t explode? If the latter, now she’s the one with the superpower, which could bring some fascinating implications down the line.

I was completely blindsided by the reveal on the Mandarin. In the very best way, to the point where it took me awhile to even believe what I was hearing, to stop expecting Trevor to be an elaborate ruse to lull Tony into submission. This, to me, was one of the very best things about the film. It wasn't just an awesome reveal. The movie took a nasty racist stereotype and flipped it around into an examination of that stereotype: how Killian used it for his own purposes, how quickly everyone bought into it. Here's a really great post on why these changes to the Mandarin from comic book were not only an improvement, but necessary to update the film and keep it from being a racist, orientalist disaster. And also the brilliance of the film's marketing, how it led us to expect one thing, and then the movie gave us something entirely different -- and so much better.

Another neat trope flip (that I didn't notice on my own; credit ouyangdan for this one): Pepper didn't get fridged to cause Tony's manpain and give him an impetus to move against the Mandarin. Instead, it was Happy who was sidelined, injured and at one point, literally put into a refrigerator (when Tony ditches his call by leaving the phone inside the wine cellar). Also everything with Tony and the kid -- at first, their relationship looks like it's going to fall into all the stereotypes of "kid softens up grumpy man and helps him find his capacity to care", but nope. Tony is the same obnoxious, self-involved guy he always is, even if he does accept Harley's help in his own way. Good trope subversion is always a win.

I have a few issues, of course, the main one being that Maya and especially Killian were underdeveloped as villains, in terms of really getting to understand their motivations. I also wish Rhodey had been given just a little bit more to do in the final battle -- surely once the president was flown to safety, he could have come back to help out. And Tony snapping out of his last anxiety attack the way he did seemed just a little too easy to me, although since I have no first hand experience with anxiety, panic disorders, or PTSD, I don't want to speak to that too much. But overall, none of my complaints were enough to get in the way of my enjoyment of the film.

The one thing I was spoiled for (besides Pepper eventually ending up in the suit — not the circumstances, though, and that was pretty sweet) was Mark Ruffalo having a small part in the film, so when he didn’t show up during the movie proper, I pretty much guessed what was coming in the tag scene. Which fortunately did not make the moment any less awesome. :D Proof that Science Bros lasted beyond the credits of the Avengers! One thing about being in the post Avengers MCU era — I start wanting to know where everyone else is. Okay, we can excuse Thor for being out of town, but why isn’t Cap going after the Mandarin? Why isn’t SHIELD all over this Extremis stuff? Maybe we’ll get explanations in the other movies (like how The Incredible Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man 2 all happened within the space of about one week, movie-canon time), but for now it does leave me wondering.

So anyway, it was fun, and I'm glad I saw it opening weekend. More MCU, hooray! And I'm glad I got to see the trailer for Thor 2 on the big screen. But really, it's all marking time until next April. Is it can be Winter Soldier time, please?

Comments

[zachariah]

I know what you mean about the Trevor reveal. I couldn't believe it. For at least a minute or so I thought maybe the power rings were possessing him (similar to in Avengers), and if I recall correctly he wasn't wearing them when Tony met him. It turned out great, though.

[owlmoose]

Totally. I saw a review today that speculated about how neat it would be if Trevor stumbled across some alien rings of power and became a villain in his own right. That would be kind of awesome. If they could find a reasonable way to bring him back, I'd be all for it.

So much tl;dr...

[czol]

They can't really say for sure which films he will appear in. AFAIK Whedon is still working on the script for Avengers 2, which doesn't start filming till next year, & an Iron Man 4 would be years away. Also RDJ's contract is up for renewal, so I'd imagine they'd want to settle that before saying exactly where the character will make future appearances, because if he opts not to return that may affect things as they'd want to firmly establish a new actor in the part. Though it's pretty obvious RDJ will almost certainly come back - he's made it clear enough that he's waited till this point to put himself in a good negotiating position, so provided he doesn't throw a diva fit at not being offered enough, it should all be good.


Any bets on whether Tony cured Pepper of all the effects of Extremis? Or did he just stabilize her so she wouldn’t explode? If the latter, now she’s the one with the superpower, which could bring some fascinating implications down the line.

I think he just stabilised Pepper. It's been a week since the last time I saw it & I haven't seen it enough to know it by heart as I did with Avengers, but he says about fixing her & also himself. I'm pretty sure I know what this refers to, as I have a rough idea about the implications of Extremis. The moment they mentioned it at the beginning I was like OH SHIT I KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING! OMG! I haven't actually read the comics at all, but I went through all the extras on the Iron Man 1 bluray, & there are a whole bunch of special features on the comics canon & how they interpreted that for MCU!Tony, & one of them is about the Extremis arc. I haven't read it yet (I got the graphic novel out of the library to learn more, but my To Read list is long) so I only know what is talked about in the featurette, but: In the comics Tony infects himself with Extremis & uses it as a means of controlling the suit. He seems to have some of the sort of capability already in IM3, so I'm not sure how Extremis will alter things. I'll have to actually read it, & then wait & see how much - if any - of that will get used. The guy I went to the preview screening with had a very different interpretation of the ending than me (either we didn't get the "Tony Start will return" thing in the preview, or we somehow missed it) & he thought the ending was quite bleak. Where I was all 'Oooh shiny shiny Extremis possibilities!'


I have a few issues, of course, the main one being that Maya and especially Killian were underdeveloped as villains, in terms of really getting to understand their motivations.

I think Maya & Aldrich were fairly clear - their motivations were just quite subtle & you had to pay attention. Maya's got this thing where she's guilty about what she's done & wants to be told she's still a good person, but at the same time doesn't want to admit it & seems to be being wilfully blind (even considering the government has hidden a lot of the detonations & Killian likely doesn't enlighten her, 3 people going boom is still not "practically stable"). That's why she betrays Killian - because he's torturing Pepper to get to Tony, & Pepper is the one who has tried to soothe her conscience & make her feel like Tony will be willing to help fix Extremis. It would still have been nice to give her more screen time, & it'll be interesting to see what is in any deleted scenes, but I think they establish the character pretty well.


I start wanting to know where everyone else is. Okay, we can excuse Thor for being out of town, but why isn’t Cap going after the Mandarin? Why isn’t SHIELD all over this Extremis stuff? Maybe we’ll get explanations in the other movies (like how The Incredible Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man 2 all happened within the space of about one week, movie-canon time), but for now it does leave me wondering.

Actually SHIELD are involved - JARVIS uses data from FBI, CIA & SHIELD files to construct a profile of the Mandarin. It's possible they're aware of Extremis since it's being used on the military, but there's not necessarily a reason to connect that to what is going on with the Mandarin. Likely there's a lot of 'Well shit...' going down at SHIELD HQ at this point.

As for the other Avengers, Clint & Natasha are SHIELD agents, so they're either off doing work for them, or possibly seeking out info in the Mandarin themselves. Bruce wouldn't have added anything to the search that Tony wasn't already doing himself, & the Hulk would have just smashed Trevor & the real villain would have escaped - even though they didn't realise the Mandarin was a front, it's likely a lot of useful data that would help identify the Mandarin's supposed network would get destroyed in the process (if I learned anything from Zero Dark Thirty it was that) if they let the Hulk loose. So that'd only leave Captain America who is conspicuous by his absence, & I'd imagine he's off doing whatever he is doing in Captain America 2 (I am avoiding spoilers), which would also account for Natasha (I am not always as successful as I'd like in avoiding spoilers). Plus he wouldn't be great at tracking him (he's not as stupid as fandom likes to make out, but he's no genius, & if they just need someone to send in once they've found the Mandarin, they have Rhodes for that. And that leads me on to another good reason why they wouldn't want Rogers involved...

You have to take into account Rhodey's remark about American business vs superhero business & what it actually means. I've seen a lot of people saying that explanation doesn't make sense, but it does when you think about it.

This film is very good at lampshading & subverting a lot of tropes, & one of the is America & its perception of terrorists. Try to imagine that superheroes were real, & had been sent after Bin Laden. How would that have affected their image & public perception of them? Especially outside America, where even people who aren't allied with Al Qaida would view it as American imperialism. While the Avengers are a SHIELD project, they are ostensibly independent & there to defend the whole world. Considering that there was a lot of controversy over Bin Laden being killed & not being brought for trial, & how US troops had to basically invade a foreign country to do so. Now imagine that controversy applied to superheroes. Avengers did a good job of pointing out how superheroes wouldn't be universally applauded, & that was for an actual alien invasion, & the dissenting voices were presumably told to STFU by everyone else. This is a much murkier issue.


I'm actually pissed at Ruffalo revealing he had a part in IM3 on his twitter. That scene worked best as a nice surprise, & there was no reason to reveal it (what, there were people who weren't going to bother seeing it otherwise & having Bruce in one scene would win them over?). Luckily I'd already seen it by that point, but I think he did so on or right before the release date, so most people wouldn't have.


I have seen it 7 times now. I have a lot of feelings.

Re: So much tl;dr...

[owlmoose]

Makes sense that they would want to hedge their bets, not give too many specifics about where and when Tony/Iron Man might return. I hope he does, although have you heard that RDJ is not holding out for a raise for himself, but for the other actors from the Avengers (he's even expressed willingness to take a pay cut)? I think that's pretty awesome, if it works.

i did catch the line about Jarvis using SHIELD data for his reconstruction of the Mandarin Chinese Theater explosion. And you raise good points about SHIELD/heroes not wanting to get too involved with US politics; it just would have been nice to get a throwaway line to that effect -- maybe Rhodey saying something about how the military wants to handle this on their own and not get SHIELD involved. (And I just re-read your comment and saw you made reference to some line like that, so that's good, but it must have gotten by me, which suggests that it might have been too subtle. Same thing with Maya and Kilian's motivations -- they were there, but too subtle for a film like this. I'm not saying everything needs to be communicated with a sledgehammer, but they could have given them just a touch more depth I think.)

The film's self-consciousness about the realty of terrorism versus the face we expect it to wear was one of my favorite things about it. And I see what you're saying about Cap looking like a symbol of American imperialism (even though he doesn't actually work for the US military right now), although the same argument could be made for Rhodey, especially in the Iron Patriot suit.

Yeah, it is a shame that Mark Ruffalo wrecked that particular surprise. I still loved it, but I would have loved it even more if I hadn't known. There was a girl sitting behind me practically hyperventilating with joy, and if I hadn't known, that would have been me!

Re: So much tl;dr...

[czol]

Well I don't think Rhodes is on the same level as Captain America. Cap was originally a mascot for propaganda. While word of his exploits once he did get into the field presumably made it home (there was a medal ceremony so he was definitely acknowledged, & his victories would have been very good for morale), he'd probably have been seen as something separate (I mean, he's seen commanding other soldiers, so did he get officially promoted to Captain during the Fight Allllll the Hydra montage? Or did they just accept it when he ordered them about they just sort of assumed he had the right to command them?), & he probably acquired a sort of semi-mythological status after apparently dying & few civilians having seen him IRL (aside from the propaganda shows).

Rhodey meanwhile is a soldier first & foremost. He has an actual official rank that he earned the normal way, an actual position within a military department, & he's seen doing spokesperson work at least once so people outside the army know his face & are vaguely aware of his existence as an actual person (also propaganda work, but a more modern, subtle kind). He just snagged himself his own Iron Man suit, which technically would qualify him as a superhero, but the difference between him & Tony is Tony has made it clear that he is independent & is trying to divorce himself from his weapons-dealing past, while Rhodey is a soldier who has used his acquisition of a suit to continue his role. So while people evidently see him as a sort of superhero (you get the impression that Harley seems to, at least) he is still firmly tied in to the military in their minds, so they sort of just go along with it.