The Winter Long: A discussion post

[owlmoose]

One of the things I miss about doing fandom on LJ is book discussions, especially going back and discussing books long after they came out. Tumblr moves so fast, and especially for something like a book that everyone finishes at different times it can be hard to go back and see what other people said about it.

In particular, one book that I always wanted to have a good discussion about is The Winter Long by Seanan McGuire, the eighth book in the October Daye series. It's not just a great book, it completely upends almost everything we thought we knew about what was going on in Toby's world, and casts so much of her story in a new light. And I thought the occasion of renay having recently finished the book would be a good time to open the floor.

NOTE: Renay has not yet read the next book in the series (A Red-Rose Chain), so no spoilers for it in comments please. I will be keeping an eye on comments and deleting anything too egregious. (Does DW support spoiler cuts in comments yet? I know LJ does.) Thanks! (Although meaty stuff happens in RRC, too, I think it's perfectly possible to talk about TWL without referencing it.) However, it should probably go without saying that stuff up to and including TWL will be spoiled beyond this point.


So I don't have anything in particular to kick this off with (it's been a long day and my brain is fairly fried, but some potential avenues for discussion (EDIT -- not everything in the list below happens in TWL, because I somehow collapsed that story with the events of Chimes at Midnight when I was typing it up. But they're interesting things to discuss anyway, so I leave it as is.):

• The biggest reveal to me is the discovery that Evening Winterrose is not only alive but has been pulling all the strings on Toby's life for quite some time now. I know at least one person who saw this coming, but it blindsided me completely. I still want to go back and reread everything that leads up to TWL with an eye for clues.


• Simon's relationship to Toby. That was pretty much a shocker, too.


• Speaking of relationships, Crown Prince Quentin! This one, I can't say came as so much of a surprise to me, but the reveal was handled well.


• The deposing of the Queen of the Mists, and the discovery of Arden (who happens to secretly live in my favorite bookstore).


• Sylvester. :( What is he hiding? Why was it worth ruining his relationship with Toby? I can't lie, of all the sad things that have happened in this series, that was one of the saddest.


• Amadine. WTF is up with Amadine???

And I'm sure there's at least half a dozen other things that I'm just not thinking of off the top of my head. What did I miss? Let's chat. :)

Comments

[renay]

OKAY, SOME FEELINGS:

I did NOT see Evening being alive coming at all. It shocked the hell out of me, but also made complete sense. If I could have 1% of McGuire's plotting talents I would immediately be 65% more competent at layering stories. (Ignore that the math here makes no sense.) I read this series from the library but uhhhh I think I need to invest in copies so I can read them all.

When Simon showed up on Toby's doorstep, I was like, "OH MY GOD DON'T TELL ME WE'RE ABOUT TO FACE A TWIST OF SIMON BEING HER ACTUAL FATHER SOMEHOW." So I kind of half-called it? But Toby is often so attached to her humanity, and I'm SO suspicious of her mother screwing around with her blood now that it's the first place my mind went. It was still a surprise finding out about him, their messed up family, and that she had a sister! On one hand it changes EVERYTHING about her spending so long as a fish and on the other it changes nothing because she still lost so much and had to make an entirely new life for herself. :(

Maybe it's just me, but the Sylvester and Luna stuff, where Toby's relationship with them is falling apart, is kind of the weirdest thing about the series for me. I can sort of grok Luna's changed relationship: she's lost her kitsune hiding place and is showing more of the attitude displayed by her parents. But otherwise the odd deterioration of their relationship doesn't quite follow for me, although I know there are easily identifiable reasons. Sylvester is easier because he's been outright lying and refusing to tell Toby things she might really need to know for some time, and it's not clear why he's doing it. He's not like Simon, forbidden to tell people things, is he...???

TYBALT/TOBY CONTINUES TO BE MY HAPPY PLACE. I cried when they fell out of the sky because I legit thought she had just killed Toby's boys and I was going to have to burn the world down. I'M SO GLAD I WAS WRONG. ;____;

Lastly, I DID NOT SEE QUENTIN AS THE CROWN PRINCE COMING. How was I supposed to see that coming?! I am the worst at clues. Out of all the shocks in this series that one is up at the top between "EVENING" and "THE QUEEN IS FAKE???"

I don't care it's the least popular ship, I totally ship Quentin and Raj. I also hope there are some good May/Jazz stories out there somewhere, official canon or otherwise. I'm super into the relationships in these books. They're SO GOOD and so well done. Ahhhh.