owlmoose: 30 Days of DA: Favorite villain

KJ (

owlmoose) wrote,
@ 2012-01-21 06:37 pm UTC

Current mood:	thoughtful
Entry tags:	30 days of, dragon age
Crossposts:	http://owlmoose.livejournal.com/574913.html

30 Days of DA: Favorite villain

Day Twenty-one: Favorite villain

There's really only one villain in the Dragon Age series, in the traditional sense of an overarching antagonist acting against the protagonist with intent, and that's Loghain Mac Tir. Some of the origin stories have their own villains who affect the main story (Howe, Bhelen, Vaughan, perhaps Bharat), as do some of the sidequests in both games, but overall Dragon Age does a really neat job of not providing us with clear-cut heroes and villains -- even the PC can avert the hero trope, depending on what choices you make, and I would argue that Dragon Age 2 doesn't have a classic antagonist at all.

I find Loghain pretty interesting and very well written, but he's not my answer to this question. Instead, I'll pick someone with an even more ambiguous position on the hero vs. villain scale: Meredith Stannard.

To date, I haven't played a templar-supporing Hawke, only a fence-sitter and a mage supporter, so I've only related to Meredith as an antagonist. One of the reasons I'm keen on doing a pro-templar run is to get more insight into her character. Knight-Commander Meredith fascinates me. For nearly two thirds of the game, she's little more than a name, an unseen figure in the shadows, and yet she's the driving force behind so much that what happens in Kirkwall. It gives her a menacing quality that never quite disappears, even when she does finally make her entrance during the end of Act Three. Very effective, so interesting. She is a worthy antagonist, and I look forward to learning more about her as a sort of ally.

Complete list of questions

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vieralynn
2012-01-22 10:07 am UTC (link)

Loghain: I haven't yet read the Gaider's DA novels but I gather that younger!Loghain is greatly explored in The Stolen Throne. Have you read it yet? The more I learn about Loghain, the less I see him as a clear-cut antagonist given the information he was working with and how he perceived that information. And THIS is what I really like about DA--the multifaceted nature if it all.

Oh, Meredith. I've been marathoning through DA2 and I am nearing the climax of Act II (although I have a bunch of side missions and a few outstanding companion missions to complete so the main story quests will probably hang for a few days).

Meredith is such an interesting shadow of a figure right now. Many people speak of her but, of course, she is completely inaccessible. I'm curious how her character will feel during my second play through. Why? Currently she feels like no more than shadow from a cloud that is hovering far, far, far overhead. Or a battleship that hasn't yet set sail. Of course, I have my theories about her (after pondering separate dialogues Hawke has had with Cullen and with Bartrand+Varric), but nothing adds up. At this point, her absence (plus what people say of her) remind me of the real life kinds of uncomfortable/semi-competant leaders (division managers, etc.) who use Strict Rules and Enforced Adherence To Order as a means for covering up their lack of ideas, lack of ability, and general uncomfortableness with people/the situation. Of course, when I finally get to see Meredith in action, I'll be able to form a more accurate(?) opinion of her--and perhaps a completely different opinion--but until then she seems a rather odd shadowy figure looming up in some inaccessible wing in the Gallows.

Thus, I am very curious to find out how I will see her during a second play through. ;)

But, yes, I trust you: no doubt she will be an interesting antagonist.

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owlmoose
2012-01-23 01:04 am UTC (link)

I haven't read any of the novels but I've read summaries of "The Stolen Throne" and "The Calling" (avoiding "Asunder" spoilers, a bit, because I think I'm more likely to read it). And I do understand that it gives more texture and depth to Loghain's actions, and makes him more sympathetic, as he becomes more sympathetic if you add him to your party and get to know him a bit. But I don't think knowing the reasons for his actions really excuses them, especially not the more heinous bits like selling elves to slavers.

I'm also curious to see your thoughts on Meredith after you've met her, and during a second playthrough. I actually found her more interesting the second time around, in terms of being a shadow figure.

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vieralynn
2012-01-23 01:23 am UTC (link)

I agree that Loghain becomes quite despicable near the end, but I think his level of desperation coupled with his hatred for all things Orlesian makes him a very interesting well-motivated character. (I tend to like characters who are not sympathetic, purely because it requires very good storytelling to pull it off. I tend to fall asleep when stories are presented in a black and white fashion...)

Meredith. I am looking forward to seeing her appearance. I've made mental notes of every comment characters have made about her so far--which almost uniformly depict her as a severe hardliner. Only one conversation with Cullen provided some eyebrow raising subtext and, without that, she would otherwise appear monotone at this point. I suspect she'll will include elements of the sorts of characters I like (note: although definitely not the sort of person I like).

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vieralynn
2012-02-03 02:51 am UTC (link)

Now that I'm done with one DA2 play through, I had to come back to this meme question of yours!

I too have been thinking (meta-gaming) about how to construct an extremely pro-templar, pro-chantry Hawke purely so I can uncover different parts of the story, hers included, through different eyes.

Given how I played my mage-supporting "canon" run, I cannot say I ever fully understood the root of Meredith's motivations but only that she was a military despot with paranoid tendencies who, in the end (or earlier?) was corrupted by the idol. During that final set of battles at the Gallows, all I felt was the shear dread whenever Hawke had to stand next to Meredith because I knew she and Hawke looked at each other as mortal enemies and absolutely nothing between them would conclude well, especially if Cullen (through fear, apathy, or worse) ended up feeding Hawke to the wolves.

I look forward to learning more about her as a sort of ally.

Now that we know too much about her, it is interesting to think about where that breaking point occurs --- when would a pro-templar/chantry Hawke *stop* thinking of Meredith as an ally?

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owlmoose
2012-02-03 02:55 am UTC (link)

Right? That's a really interesting question. Would you see the cracks beginning to show in advance of the final battle, or would the way she turns on you come as a surprise? Although I think I want to play an all-out templar supporter just for the experience, I might end up being a fence-sitter like my first Hawke, who decides to throw in with the templars at the end.

Just checking; I may spoil at will now? ;) Or are you trying to stay somewhat unspoiled for different outcomes? I've heard enough about the pro-templar game that I wouldn't consider more info about it spoilery -- knowing about something and experiencing it as a player are two different things. (The Chantry, for example -- I knew it was coming, and yet it was still an effective shock and awe moment.)

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	no subject vieralynn 2012-02-03 03:00 am UTC (link)
	For the official spoilage record: now that i've completed the DA games, I'm fully prepared for all possible spoilers merely because I want to meta-game my way through future play throughs just so I can see everything. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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