owlmoose | Election musings and poll

All the murmurings I hear from the adults I know favor Clinton; I'm not sure why. I hear a lot of "Obama doesn't have enough experience." but when I ask what sort of experience they'd want him to have, they don't have an answer. I'm on the far side of the fence here: I think it might be better if Obama walks into the presidency, young, without tons of political baggage. I might be in a minority, though.

Also, I know a lot of women who seriously buy into the whole, "oh there's a woman running, I better vote for her." DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THAT.

I guess, for the first time, America is going to face something huge: their sexism and their racism and religious intolerance, whether valid or invented because of Obama's heritage. This is why I think things will be up in the air for awhile yet — I figure things will change right up until the nomination.

"Obama doesn't have enough experience."

Yeah. It interests me that Edwards, who only had one term in the Senate, didn't get the same kind of scrutiny on that point. And over half of Clinton's experience was as First Lady -- a more politically involved First Lady than most, to be sure, but still.

America is going to face something huge: their sexism and their racism and religious intolerance

It's true. And actually a little exciting: out of four front-runners for President of the United States, only one is a white male Protestant. There was a part of me that really thought the Democrats nominate Edwards in the end for just that reason.

First of all, I should point out that my selection of McCain for the last "who's likely to be elected" question is *not* due to support. It's due to pessimism. I dearly hope I'm wrong. Unless someone like Romney or Huckabee. *shudder*

My opinion is likely to change as we approach November. Which means, of course, that you'll have to have a similar poll around October or thereabouts. :-)

Of course. ;) I'm sure more polls will be forthcoming....

*cough* I keep forgetting complete sentences. It was prolly obvious, but I meant to shudder at the thought of Romney or Huckabee winning.

Anyhow, I agree with what bottle_of_shine said earlier. Americans will have the choice to make a big decision, in a way, to face something potentially ugly within ourselves, within our culture.

I don't think we aren't brave enough. Again, if I'm wrong, I'll...uhmmm... buy you a coffee or tea, owlmoose. :-)

Damn it: don't think we ARE brave, not aren't.

I wish I could inline edit already-posted comments. Grrr. /me curses at LJ interface...

I'll hold you to that. ;) And if you're right, I'll buy us both some wine. (A bottle. Apiece. Since I think we'll probably need it.)

See, here I am, hoping to God that McCain actually does get the Republican nominee. Because I just plain like him, for one, and would vote for him. But also because I also really like Clinton and Obama (the former a tiny bit more), and I would love an election where I couldn't decide between the R or D nominees.

Obama is really charismatic and everything, but I think he just gives off an air of being too "new." And I also think that with Clinton, people automatically (of course) associate her with her husband--you know, "hey, it's like letting him back in the white house again." I think that she stands a better chance for those reasons... she comes off as more worldly and experienced, and Obama as more... naive, almost, you know, very new. So right now I'm thinking it'll be Clinton in the end (although who really knows).

But dammit, I do love McCain, too. *laugh* He's too old and loud-mouthed and I just don't know that he can realistically get the R nomination, but I hope he does anyway. *laugh*

I am torn about McCain. There's a part of me that's rooting for him to get the nomination, because he has the air of being actually competent, and principled, and all the things that GWB is not. And I like some of the stands he's taken (campaign finance reform, zero tolerance on torture, etc.). That's the part of me that wants someone who would seems able to do the job, no matter what their party is. And I have a lot more confidence in McCain being able to do that than, say, Huckabee. And I agree, there's a lot to be said about having interesting candidates on both sides of the ballot.

But he's said things about the war that concern me, a lot. And he's way more conservative on social issues than I like. And he's far more electable than any of the other Republican candidates. And maybe it's terribly partisan of me, but after how things have done down the last eight years, I really *really* want a Democrat in the White House. So it worries me.

Generally speaking, when compared to say Clinton, his stance isn't really all that different--a little more right, but, he's still pretty moderate (I mean, it says something when the R party's loudest complaint about him is simply "He's not conservative!"). My thought is definitely, "if there's going to be a Republican, he's the one to pick." And really, as nice as it sounds to say "let's run away from Iraq really face," it's just not feasible in any way at this point... in any case, those things that I don't like about him are inevitably balanced by things I do like about him. I'd rather have a candidate that I generally agree with and stands a good chance of being elected, I guess. (And: Dammit, he's just likable, even though he has a smart mouth. I read somewhere that most of McCain's voters "don't vote for his policies, they vote for him," which rings pretty true. *laugh*)

I'd like a democrat to win, too, but I guess to me it's "But if not, that guy's pretty cool." I was amazed that he actually became the front runner--who knows if it'll last, but I didn't expect him to do very well. My brother just turned 18 and he's apparently voting for Clinton if she gets it, though. I'll probably end up voting D too, but isn't it novel that the election could be "two decent candidates" versus "one good and one very bad?"

but isn't it novel that the election could be "two decent candidates" versus "one good and one very bad?"

Yes, absolutely. It is a very nice change, and more than I usually hope for from a presidential campaign. Not that there is any choice for me -- McCain or no McCain, I'll vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomiation -- but it's nice to think that I won't want to flee the country if the "other side" wins (which I was seriously tempted to do in 2000).

I was 100% Kucinich... until he dropped out. Now I'm 100% Obama. The more I see Clinton and the more I think about it... it makes me sick to my stomach. It's probably not her fault, but I don't like the idea of electing someone from a 'powerful family'. I feel the same way about the Kennedies. She is a woman, true, but the great thing about having free thought is that you don't have to support someone just because you have some basic genetic trait in common with them.

I hope that anyone but McCain gets the Republican nomination... because I cannot stand John McCain and I would likely be violently ill at the thought of him having the chance at being President. No one listens to me, but I was there and I heard him speak in the single most inappropriate manner I have ever heard, and no amount of "straight talk" can ever, ever forgive that.

Also, I find it unusual that, in my comment, I twice refer to being physically ill over the elections. I wonder what that means.

I was there and I heard him speak in the single most inappropriate manner I have ever heard, and no amount of "straight talk" can ever, ever forgive that.

Wow, what happened? I don't think I've heard this story. If you don't mind telling it, of course.

I have the same reservations about Clinton. As you say, it's not her fault, but the idea of the White House passing back and forth between two families for nearly 30 years (from 1988, when Bush Sr. was elected, to 2016, if Hillary were elected and then re-elected) bothers me a lot. (That said, if she gets the nomination, I will vote for her -- I still prefer her to any of the Republican options.)

McCain spoke at my college graduation. It was a graduation speech.

He got up there and rambled for almost an hour. It started off well, with him saying how proud we should be and how we should thank our parents and how it was great to have so many minds and we should keep using our college education in daily life, blah blah blah, but that was about 5-10 minutes.

The other 50 or so minutes were him talking about Iraq. About how he felt a deep burning need to continue the work over there. About how it felt right in his heart, and how the whole war was justified because "the followers of Islam are extremists who don't respect freedom and liberty" (not a direct quote, but close). This was said before a multinational audience of mostly liberal college graduates, at a place which has a large population of Muslim students. I could hear the horrified gasps and whispers from the business school (where the largest population of Muslim folks were) and, indeed, from all around when we all realized what kind of idiotic thing he had said.

#1: You don't insult a large portion of your audience on what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of their lives.
#2: McCain obviously does not understand what a "college graduation speech" is supposed to entail. He took it to mean "Stand up and congratulate everyone and then present your political platform".

This is why I say that I can never vote for someone who doesn't understand context.

I think part of the reason that Edwards felt he had to bow out is that he is in fact a white male, and in many ways he would have been standing in the way of history.
Still, I was somewhat bummed that he dropped out- I was just starting to get fed up enough with Hillary and Barack that I was considering voting for him!
I have to remember to listen to the democratic debate tonight.

The other thing I find interesting is that the candidates that seem to have to most appeal right now (aside from Hillary) are the ones who are not "party line" politicians. Especially among Republicans (we've seen where that party line gets us), but also among Democrats. It's actually kind of encouraging.

I think part of the reason that Edwards felt he had to bow out is that he is in fact a white male, and in many ways he would have been standing in the way of history.

That's a really interesting analysis, and I bet that's at least part of it.

I also agree that it's nice to see the politicians who aren't strictly on their party's line getting more attention. (Although I would argue that Romney shifted his views to match the party line more closely.) A reflection that we're getting sick of the two-party system? Maybe. I can only hope.

It was the timing that surprised me. I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd dropped out after losing South Carolina _or_ after losing super tuesday. And in retrospect I guess I can see where he maybe wanted to choose the right milleu for the announcement, but I didn't see it coming.

The experience argument never ceases to blow my mind--for one thing, Obama actually has more experience serving in elected office than Clinton. More to the point--I don't think experience has ever won an election. As I stretch my mind back as far as I can remember details (around Eisenhower or so) I can think of a grand total of one election where the candidate with more 'experience' actually won (discounting re-elections).

I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd dropped out after losing South Carolina _or_ after losing super tuesday.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am. When he didn't even get 20% in SC, I figured he was done, but I thought he'd announce it right away. When he didn't, I was sure he was in it until next week.

Which candidate are you thinking of, wrt experience?

I'm sorry, I'm still woefully inadequate with e-abbreviations. What's wrt?

Oh--with regards to?

I'm thinking 88'.--Bush v. Dukakis as the single 'experience loses' exception. Or did I misunderstand the question?

Yeah, with regards to. :) And you did understand the question. Sorry for the cryptic e-speak!

Election musings and poll

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