![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Another day, another fandom platform buyout
So word is that Yahoo! has made an agreement to purchase Tumblr for $1.1 billion. Yes, that's billion, with a B. I've heard rumors that David Karp will stay on as CEO, that Tumblr will be allowed to largely continue operating as an independent entity, that Yahoo will try to entice Tumblr users toward other Yahoo services. All the news stories I've seen have not included official comment from either company, so it's all speculation at this point. Supposedly there will be an announcement tomorrow, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth has already begun.
But we've been here before, haven't we? Stop me if you've heard this one: Fandom congregates on an advertising-supported Internet platform and contributes content and traffic that helps make the site a success. Then the founders of the platform can't keep up with growth and/or can't figure out how to make sufficient money off the userbase, so they sell to a larger media company that either shuts down the site or starts making drastic changes, and fandom moves to a new platform. Second verse, same as the first...
Little bit louder and a whole lot worse.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: there is a tension in all social media platforms between the users as customers, the users as audience, and the users as providers of content. And remember, as far as these corporations are concerned, we aren't their primary customers. Their advertisers are, because ultimately they're paying the bills -- and the shareholders. You'd think that, since these sites have no content without their users, that they'd put more effort into making users happy, but their track record is notably poor, as a group and Yahoo!'s in particular (buying eGroups and driving out adult content, buying and shutting down Geocities, the acquisition of Flickr that nearly killed the service, and my personal favorite: the De.li.cio.us debacle). Any LiveJournal veteran knows how badly these acquisitions can go wrong. That particular series of botched acquisitions is a huge reason that fandom migrated to Tumblr in the first place. So I think we have lots of good reasons to be worried.
That said, I'm officially taking a "let's wait and see" attitude. One thing all reports agree on: Tumblr, on its own, was almost out of money, and I would currently rather have a Tumblr owned by Yahoo! or another large media company than no Tumblr at all. (And it could have been worse -- rumor was that Facebook was once involved in the bidding. *shudders*) But whenever fandom sets up camp on a platform run by a for-profit company, this is the risk we take. And this is why, ultimately, I think we're better off with non-profits that are either created by fandom or explicitly welcoming to us. Because then we really are the customers, and the content we produce is valued, and not just for the advertising dollars it might attract.
(Adapted from my comments on a Tumblr reblog.)
But we've been here before, haven't we? Stop me if you've heard this one: Fandom congregates on an advertising-supported Internet platform and contributes content and traffic that helps make the site a success. Then the founders of the platform can't keep up with growth and/or can't figure out how to make sufficient money off the userbase, so they sell to a larger media company that either shuts down the site or starts making drastic changes, and fandom moves to a new platform. Second verse, same as the first...
Little bit louder and a whole lot worse.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: there is a tension in all social media platforms between the users as customers, the users as audience, and the users as providers of content. And remember, as far as these corporations are concerned, we aren't their primary customers. Their advertisers are, because ultimately they're paying the bills -- and the shareholders. You'd think that, since these sites have no content without their users, that they'd put more effort into making users happy, but their track record is notably poor, as a group and Yahoo!'s in particular (buying eGroups and driving out adult content, buying and shutting down Geocities, the acquisition of Flickr that nearly killed the service, and my personal favorite: the De.li.cio.us debacle). Any LiveJournal veteran knows how badly these acquisitions can go wrong. That particular series of botched acquisitions is a huge reason that fandom migrated to Tumblr in the first place. So I think we have lots of good reasons to be worried.
That said, I'm officially taking a "let's wait and see" attitude. One thing all reports agree on: Tumblr, on its own, was almost out of money, and I would currently rather have a Tumblr owned by Yahoo! or another large media company than no Tumblr at all. (And it could have been worse -- rumor was that Facebook was once involved in the bidding. *shudders*) But whenever fandom sets up camp on a platform run by a for-profit company, this is the risk we take. And this is why, ultimately, I think we're better off with non-profits that are either created by fandom or explicitly welcoming to us. Because then we really are the customers, and the content we produce is valued, and not just for the advertising dollars it might attract.
(Adapted from my comments on a Tumblr reblog.)
no subject
no subject
no subject
Also, there's a small petty part of me that wishes this would drive more thoughtful fans back to Dreamwidth. As much as I enjoy sharing random pics and quick blogging, I prefer fandom discussions and community in a more extended and thoughtful mode.
I just...
With me, it's salt in old wounds. I am irrationally bitter about Geocities. It's been shut for over three years, but I still miss my friends' websites on it, as well as some great fandom sites that are gone. I mourn all the zines and communities I never discovered or saw, because web search was primitive during Geocities' golden age. My websites on Geocities are the longest web presence I've had anywhere, from 1994-2009. Beyond my own losses, as a fan and a denizen of the internet, it hurts that so much of the early history of the web, fandom, and online communities was wiped out. Sure, Geocities would probably have died sometime, but it was Yahoo that bought it, slowly squeezed the life out of it, and pulled the plug.
I found it telling that in the "Here's the sites Yahoo! has bought and wrecked" gif that garnered over 100,000 reblogs overnight, Geocities wasn't mentioned, because apparently the author didn't know it existed.
Tangent: I'm reminded that there are two webs, one whose heyday was in the 90s, one which is more recent.
The old web was for people who didn't want to share everything about themselves, but passionately wished to share their interests, knowledge, hobbies, and creative works with like-minded individuals. This web self-selected by topic, project, fandom, content.
The new web is for people who see the web as an extension of their personal lives, so that they're sharing personal details, selfies, and all kinds of "this is me!" information on their profiles and feeds.
Obviously I'm not entirely against this "new" web. I like sharing my RL with a select group of friends, some of them online friends. But I'm still a content-primary rather than people-primary web user.
Where was I going with this? Oh, right. Again and again, I've seen Yahoo buy websites designed for the former, and then Yahoo fails to grok what the userbase is doing with it. The site stagnates. Yahoo slathers it with one-size-fits-all ads and/or attempts to lure its members to some of their other properties. Then Yahoo leaves it to go fallow or pulls the plug.
Marissa Mayer is new to Yahoo, at least, and I realize that she's trying NOT to repeat the mistakes that Yahoo has made so often before. However, I don't think Google's approach to the web is a good one for fandom either. As you say, at least Yahoo is not Facebook.
I'm also not much impressed by Yahoo! news' patronizing article about how Teens are Excited that Yahoo is Buying Tumblr. I realize this is just a news article (or perhaps, an advertorial?), but still, I can't help noticing the mocking scorn towards Tumblr's userbase and the cocky, "what, you really think they'll find another social site to congregate?" dig. I assume that the high muckety mucks probably don't share the opinions expressed in that article, but still, ergh.
We shall see.
"Then we really are the customers, and the content we produce is valued, and not just for the advertising dollars it might attract."
One can hope. I was rereading DW's Diversity Statement today, and it made me smile. DW has its own issues -- it's very much a ten-year-old style of website lacking the image integration of modern sites -- but at least it has gotten that part right?
no subject
no subject
I understand being bitter about Geocities; I will probably always carry at least some level of bitterness toward Six Apart and SUP thanks to how they wrecked LJ. That was my first true real online home (after the BMC Alumnae List, which I'm no longer really involved with for a whole other different set of reasons), and I'm sad that I never really got that community back. So
I don't think any for-profit company is ever going to have the right approach to fandom, not in the long term. There's a fundamental incompatibility there, a tension that will never be fully resolved. I don't have any problem with using corporate platforms when they suit our needs, but I will always have the exit strategy planned. It just makes sense.
no subject
no subject
Your fourth paragraph in its entirety: pretty much this, yes. I find it rather amazing that Fanfiction.net has survived as long as it has (in whatever limping, broken, warped form it has maintained) with the advertising model (and with comparatively so few restrictions.)
Speaking of said restrictions, what I find truly fascinating (and, because I am admittedly a bit of a jerk, popcorn-worthy) about the entire thing is that Yahoo! has a very long history of declaring that there will be no porn of any sort on itself or its affiliates, and then I think about "but what if Yahoo! tried to take the porn off of Tumblr" and picturing the ensuing meltdown is....much like I picture what's going to happen on Twitter during the Game of Thrones season 3 finale, if you get my drift (and I totally plan to camp that with popcorn too. Yes, I am sometimes a really terrible person.)
(partdon typos - on ipad...)
While I believe that Meyer and Karp both want to do the right thing -- namely, not alienating the 48% percent of Tumblr users who are in the 13-24 age bracket and represent that vast majority of daily tumblr traffic -- I've been around the block enough times to feel more than just a little skeptical in how Yahoo will turn tumblr into the two things that Yahoo needs it to be: (1) profitable and growth-oriented in user base and ads, and (2) a viable platform for onboarding Generation Y and Generation Z onto other Yahoo products (especially when Yahoo seem to be little more than THE platform for fantasy football these days... and tumblr does not strike me as the fantasy football playing crowd to say the least).
If tumblr and yahoo can maintain the same sort of relationship that various online news magazines have maintained with their users after being purchased by AOL, there is hope that Meyer and Karp can forge a trail of "doing the right thing," but I have my doubts that this will be possible given the kinds of content that tumblrs core re/bloggers post and how that content scares off advertisers and mainstream bloggers.
... Some thoughts: For the past year, tumblr strikes me as understaffed in software development engineering and product development/user experience design seems non-existent. This is *typical* of a start up that is finishing its transition from the early adoption phase to the Top Ranked Popular Product phase and tumblr, as a product headed by Karp lacks vision. It doesn't have a proper expansion plan nor a proper business plan. The lack of business plan was a well known thing in industry, which is why the investors pushed tumblr to experiment with advertising last year. The lack of an expanion plan is obvious to "older" tech insiders: meaningless/aimless interface "redesigns," inability to create a full featured mobile app, etc. etc., I think Karp did an amazing job making tumblr what it is but I also think his experience has reached its limits. So, selling tumblr to an industry giant makes a lot of sense because an industry giant can bring in the money, talent, and resource base that allows a platform like tumblr to grow into something mainstream. This is good for tumblr (but not necessarily for all of tumblrs current users, particularly those who make tumblr into a porn-and-meme site ;) but it will probably mean that over the coming year we will see software design and development efforts that expand tumblr's functionality which is potentially a good thing ... although how "good" that is will depend on how tightly tumblr gets woven into the yahoo product family. Yahoo owns enough pieces now to put together a powerful, full-featured visual micro-blogging/photoblogging system that appeals to the creative mainstream. While that product offering sounds exciting, it will mean marginalizing the fannish content even if they refrain from slapping content restrictions onto people's blogs.
Overall, I think the internet is very ripe for fannish microblogging site -- sort of like if tumblr was owned by fanfiction.net. And, yes, that would mean some content restrictions in order to keep advertising, but it would be viable.
Personally, I would be far more interested in an AO3 or Dreamwidth style tumblr, but either of those models come with their own can of worms and, in both cases, have limited ability to scale (which is part of tumblr's current problem).
Oh well. Second verse same as the first... :/
no subject
Your insight about two webs is very keen. Geocities grabbed my interests because even though I knew HTML and the basics of web programming, it was the PERFECT zine platform and I had been an avid zine-culture person since 4th year of school (er... age 8? 9?) when I started and edited a short story quarterly zine by and for pre-teens. I came to Geocities as part of the riotgrrl scene but also as someone with a variety of other interests that were part of alt culture. Electronic zines! Info Websites! MASSIVE WHOOHOO!
The difference, I think, is that Geocities and similar platforms were Web 1.0 and very much a publishing platform suited toward actual content producers. Blogs did not exist. We chatted back then using email mailing lists or IRC. The Web was only about two things: informational websites and transactional (shopping) websites. Content creators and small press publishers are, as you say, all about the content, but they (we) are also a tiny fraction of the population. Most people are content consumers.
Web 2.0 is all about interaction through a website. Facebook ... and friends (pun intended). This speaks to the masses who aren't content creators in the traditional sense. Or, the industry found a way to make everyone into content creators, even if the content is just drunk photo blogging with friends at a party <--- ephemeral content that is only interesting to other friends and only for a day or two.
Thinking about all of this, it seems like the old school content creators need to find or create viable platforms for independent publishing. Not sure what the solution is but I knew from the start that it was not tumblr. ;)
(and, yes, there is everything from DW to WordPress and perhaps that is just where we need to remain. Perhaps... Except we keep seeking newer, greener pastures which means something about these older blogging platforms seems to be lacking,,, ????)
no subject
The "no porn" thing was one of my first thoughts and most immediate concerns, especially since that was one of the biggest issues with fandom Yahoo Groups. Someone pointed out today that David Karp's use of the word "fuck" in the official
*evil laugh* Oh yes. I do.
no subject
Yeah. I mean, I kind of share Auronlu and Rina's schadenfreude sentiment about hoping that this might get more people on DW, but if DW were an adequate substitute for Tumblr, this is where people would have migrated in the first place. There is something appealing about the ease of sharing multimedia content on Tumblr, and someone (maybe
no subject
Re: (partdon typos - on ipad...)
I also see the scaling limitations as the biggest potential problem with a fan-created Tumblr; as I said in my reply to
Re: (partdon typos - on ipad...)
DW is a lifestyle company as is fanfiction.net. AO3 is a non profit. Both are good models but they have their pros and cons just like any other model.
My point is that of the three models -- growth-based, lifestyle, and non profit, -- each has limitations and each has strengths. I have a lot of personal experience with all three and can talk for hours (with power point slides) but the TL;DR version is that is more focused on our fannish problem is this: fandom will continue migrating from growth-based platform to growth-based platform because fandom *is* an early adoptor and fandom *does not* represent the mainstream user. Thus, fandom will help certain platforms grow and then the platform will go in a different direction.
Meanwhile, lifestyle companies work great for fandom (ff.net is 15 years old!) but they require the owner to remain committed. As an analogy, my favorite neighborhood restaurant closed recently after 30 years of being in business because the owners decided to retire. FF.net and DW require its current owners to remain committed to their non-growth, non-investor, lifestyle businesses. I know of lots of great *small* *focused* software products that are run by small lifestyle businesses but someday, even if 30 years from now, those products will be shut down or sold off.
Re bandwidth costs: that is not the biggest problem. Bandwidth is surprisingly inexpensive (well, I guess that depends on your definition of inexpensive...) -- the real problem is handling the growth that is required to add tumblr style images to DW and that growth means more employees and more business infrastructure. Doing this requires an infusion of cash and a giant risk that lifestyle businesses normally cannot afford. ...which is why ff.net and DW have looked pretty much the same since they have launched. (this is NOT to knock on all of the features and hardwork that ff.net and DW have added since their respective launches, but just an acknowledgement of what a tiny set of programmers with cash on hand can do verses what can be done with deep pockets, albeit at the cost of expecting 100x return on investment).
no subject
Yahoo acquired technology that they can expand into something that they are currently missing: an image-centric, mobile phone capable micro-blogging service *and* a lot of 13-24 year old eyeballs (that is the age demographic of 48% of tumblr'ls users and the blinding majority of the content posters). The fact that tumblr currently hosts a lot of porn and a lot of copyright-infringing content is beside the fact to yahoo. They purchased technology and they purchased eyeballs. What happens next is yet to be seen but once yahoo starts integrating the tumblr technology into their larger platform (and, presumably, this will happen), the percentage of porn is likely to drop, partly because mainstream content (mommy blogging? office photos? sporting event stuff?) will go up and partly because the porn will be walled off or removed.
Quick reply dashed off on phone
no subject
It will be interesting to see.
no subject
For years, I have scribbled ideas for two platforms I really want to see and, to date, neither platform exists. One platform is more for alt-culture content creators/sharer/friendmaking (where alt-culture means anything from fandom to sexual/gender identity cultures to etc etc etc). The other platform is very specific to writers. I know that the first platform is best run as a lifestyle business even through the technology could be juicy to investors. Basically, users need to be kept in the focus of the first else what is the point??? The second could either be a lifestyle business or a growth-based startup that aims at selling itself to a major publishing corporation. Despite having the resources to make a start at either of these ideas (resources = access to know how, person-power, and cash), I haven't felt 110% committed because deep down I know that these really need to be run as lifestyle companies in order to be true to the intended users and running a lifestyle company is, in many ways, like starting a restaurant. Absolutely everything else from my life would evaporate in ways that are very different from the time crunch one feels when being a low employee number (or founder) at a growth-oriented start up (where cash out is the goal).
I am hopeful that someone will start up fandom platforms that are for fandom and feel like 2013 technology rather than 2000 or 1990s tech. There is a lot of know how in fandom (and some of us are semi-retired tech geeks and/or academics with useful connections). Maybe like AO3, a new open source project is needed along with a few rounds of operational fund raising and some nonprofit infrastructure? Of course, none of this is something that can happen overnight and nothing can happen without a clear vision of what is needed.
Until then, I suspect fandom will continue jumping from platform to platform just as we have since the beginning of the internet.
(Although, yes, I would like to see more activity here on DW, but not to the point that it stresses DW's model as a lifestyle business.)
Re: Quick reply dashed off on phone
no subject
no subject
Unfortunately it changed to a terribly cluttered interface over time and began to cultivate the WAHM crowd -- more power to them, but cupcake recipes and kids toys and Moshi monsters are not the right context for my old posts about ancient Greece and basic astronomy. So I switched to writing about gaming.
Other websites have imitated Squidoo's success in various ways. I think the best of the bunch, which has kept a fairly minimalist interface and boasts a community of writers, is Hubpages. It's still not for fandom, but at least it's "content with community" including forums and comments. Second best -- and created by and for serious writers from Squidoo and HP trying to make up for its shortcomings, is Wizzley.
None of them have quite gotten it right. I had just about gotten to where I was earning a living, mostly from Squidoo, when Google finally clobbered it for allowing too much spam and junk content on it. All of the other monetized writing sites earn enough income for holiday and gift shopping but not a serious income (obviously, depending on one's skills; by and large most people make nothing, because they write nothing worth reading.)
So where was I going with this? I guess I'm saying that there is already a model out there for the ones who wish to create content, but no one has quite perfected it. It needs only a little more fine tuning.
no subject
I agree with you that no for-profit company is going to work for fandom. Except I have the feeling that if copyright laws are ever overhauled to respect transformative works really and truly, so that mashups and the like are treated with respect (and advertisers are less reluctant to support that kind of thing), we may see a sea change.
Still not sure. The main problem is scale. As Vieralynn says, there is a huge barrier when you start adding images, video, audio. It requires more robust code, more maintanance, and a lot more protection against spammers, because they make the site more attractive than a mostly-text site (and we see, even a fairly solid site like LJ gets its share of spam.) I'm not sure that DW would be able to expand the staff to deal with a userbase spike as big as Tumblr had. That said, I think that DW's careful foundation and slow build-up, their matter-of-fact strategy in making sure that they keep a close eye on income and costs to determine what features they add, shows better business sense than David Karp's.
Re: Quick reply dashed off on phone
... Er, yeah. I feel all dirty, but I DO THAT VERY THING. Bless FF fans, they keep kitty grit in Sam's box.
no subject
Re: Quick reply dashed off on phone
Re: Quick reply dashed off on phone
Great, now I'm having images of Mr. Met and that annoying dinosaur mascot behind the Rockies' home plate trying to figure out how to snog.
(I realize that is not at all what RPF means but apparently my brain goes there to shy away from it)
no subject
no subject
I don't normally respond to 5-1/2 year old comments... but I have to commend you for calling this one. :D
no subject