FFXII canon question: Ashe

[owlmoose]

Still in the "poking around the world doing hunts and sidequests" portion of FFXII, although I'm down to mostly extra Espers and bosses, and I may be ready to move on soon, since I think it would take some serious level grinding to succeed in any of what remains (except the final battle, which ironically I could probably handle just fine as-is).

I do, however, have a question about Ashe's backstory. I can't remember where I first ran across it, but I know I've seen several references to Ashe being the youngest in her family, with some crazy number of older brothers like seven or nine. And I'm wondering where this backstory tidbit came from. Is it canon, some reference or series of references I missed in the game itself? Is is "supplementary" canon (ie. Ultimania or similar)? (However, it's not in her entry on the Final Fantasy Wiki, which I understand draws pretty heavily on the Ultimania guides.) Or is it fanon, either with a single source or developed independently by several people at once?

Secondly, if it is canon or something like it, what happened to her brothers? Do we know? They can't have been killed in the war, because the war didn't start until after Ashe's wedding, and it's pretty clear that she was the heir to Dalmasca's throne when she married Rasler. On the other hand, it seems like it would take something as drastic as a war to do in seven or nine princes. Either that, or an epic conspiracy, but epic conspiracies seem not to be so much a Dalmascan thing. So I am curious.

Any information, thoughts, or discussion are much appreciated. And I apologize if this conversation has been done to death in fandom already; that's what I get for getting involved a couple of years later! But I'm always curious about how memes like this get started.

Comments

[mako-lies.livejournal.com]

As I recall, there's a few different sources that say different things. If you read the booklet that comes with the game, the blurb about Ashe claims she's an only child.

However, if you take an airship to Rabanastre and ask the bangaa selling drinks for a 'Rabanastre' he'll tell you that Ashe had either seven or nine brothers (I can't remember which). (If you talk to him on any flight, he'll tell you more about the city you're flying to). As for her brothers, I'm pretty sure they're dead, but I'm not sure if we're told /how/ they died. Maybe the Dalmascan throne goes to the women? I don't know.

[owlmoose.livejournal.com]

Ah ha. Conflicting canon information. My favorite!

I'll have to go check out that bartender; thanks for the pointer. The Dalmascan line being matrilinear is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how that would work with Raminas being king and Ondore being her uncle - wouldn't Ondore have to be her mother's brother? Do we even know anything about Ashe's mother? Hmm. Food for thought...

[(Anonymous)]

You know about Ondore I wondered the same thing but he never says in the introduction that Ondore is actually the brother-in-law (whatchamaycallit) of the king but a "dear friend". So perhaps Ashe calls him uncle because they used to be really close :X

[wounded-melody.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's like in "Stardust"? XD

[owlmoose.livejournal.com]

I've read Stardust, but it was a loooong time ago (and haven't seen the movie); refresh my memory? Thanks! :)

[wounded-melody.livejournal.com]

The last son living (and to get a necklace or something I think, been awhile for me too) would be king so they ended up killing each other and only the daughter was left (although the throne went to her son).
Just a whacky theory XD

[threewalls]

Ashe is listed as Raminas' ninth child in the FFXII Ultimania Omega. The bangaa bartender on the airship to Rabanastre confirms that the other eight children were Ashe's brothers/Raminas' sons. They all seem to have died before the events of the game.

I assumed that Ashe gets the succession mostly because every other member of the royal family is dead. Not to mention the invasion/occupation by Archades. I'd be surprised if the usual succession protocols came into it.

[lassarina]

This. I believe there might also be a Very Vague Reference to it in the opening pages of the strategy guide, but I might have The Crazy on that one.

[owlmoose.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info! I would certainly assume that any brothers Ashe might have had all died before the events of the game -- not only is there no real evidence that Dalmasca has an unusual means of succession, it's repeatedly stated that Ashe is the only remaining descendant of the Dynast-King, which means no living siblings. But that still seems like an awful lot of princes to lose, especially since outright war with Archades hadn't begun yet, and I was hoping canon somewhere would give us a hint to what might have happened to them. But it sounds like not.

[andromeda3116.livejournal.com]

Totally running late to the party, and if I were to explain how I ended up on this post, I might go insane, but there are multiple mentions of a plague striking Dalmasca prior to the events of the game -- this plague killed Vaan's parents, I know. A plague would definitely explain how a bunch of family members would die.