*Throws up hands in frustration*

[owlmoose]

"Fandom is traditionally a female space" is not some secret code for "We think all men suck and don't want to invite them over to play."

I want to sit down every single person, whatever their gender, who has gone on and on about how OTW is "excluding men" and make them read cereta's essay on "Fandom and Male Privilege" until they get it.

(This post brought to you by one too many idiot rants and wanting an excuse to post a link to the above essay, which I think is worth all of your time.)

Comments

[lassarina]

You saw that moronic post on fanficrants too, eh?

Word and agreement.

[rants]

[parron.livejournal.com]

I know absolutely nothing about this whole affair besides the basic, rough outline - you know me and metafandom and the OMGLIVEJOURNALPOWER!!!!--we don't get along. But I remember thinking not, "OMG THIS GOES AGAINST MY FEMINIST WAYS" or whatever, but just, "wow, way to be pretentious." One of the few things I read and agreed with on metafandom basically read, "It's not the idea I mind, it's the fact that these ten [or however many people] are presuming to speak for all of the people in fandom."

That and, I'm sorry, but "legalizing fanfiction" and all the rest makes me laugh out loud. It's just exactly like the strikeout idiocy -- LOOK AT HOW SPECIAL WE ARE. WATCH US PROVE OUR SPECIAL. SPECIAL!!!!

And I do wish those people didn't claim to represent fandom as a whole. Especially as I am a part of fandom.


I grew up in Vermont, which I think takes pride in being the most Batshit Liberal state in the USA. It's like our state motto. I count as pretty liberal myself when I take polls to that effect, even! But growing up in Vermont? There is bad liberal, too. Believe me. I have stories. Just like not all conservatives are extremist assholes, well, lots of liberals ARE. And that is, I suspect, why I hate LJ fandom. Because they are so OMG IMPORTANT and OMG RIGHTS and OMG WE FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS, and I grew up around shit like that, and shit is exactly what it is. There's an eventual line where "fighting for rights" becomes "being an asshole," and LJ fandom? Long, long over that line.

It's not "Oh, men can join, too" that I'm worried about -- it's "OH WE WOMEN OF FANDOM ARE SO SPECIAL AND DESERVE RIGHTS LOOK AT OUR SPECIAL." Whether or not men are involved have absolutely nothing to do with it.

[bottle-of-shine.livejournal.com]

You know I am totally with you on this issue. It's a marvel watching people, especially women, miss the point by so much. Seriously, can people not read? I really wish I knew what the disconnect was, you know?

I've wondered how much of the outright sneering is coming from younger members — people under 25 or maybe even under 20, who haven't lived enough to realize that male privilege has shaped their life and that fandom, a beautifully formed female community, is something special and something to be valued This post (http://watersword.insanejournal.com/17526.html) actually summed up my thoughts. It really touched me.

[justira.livejournal.com]

You know what, I am boggled as well. Nay already provided a great link one comment up that sums it up nicely: the default is male privilege and male-dominated spaces. Pointing out that fandom happens to be an exception is not a threat to men; it's not a "no boys allowed" sign. Can we move on, please?

Also, what is this fanficrants post I see mentioned?

Thanks for the link, it looks quite interesting! I will peruse.

[rustehroll.livejournal.com]

I made a new years resolution to Stop Caring when it came to people that I will not change, no matter what.

I have to say, I'm a little sick and tired of being "amazed" and "proud" when I see men in a relationship taking on an equal share of the work. WTF.

Sorry, this just really hit a huge nerve with me.

I'm with you, btw. WTH?

[oswulf.livejournal.com]

I don't really know the context that spurred this--not personally familiar with OTW, or the ongoing discussions herein referenced, but I read the article and it makes a lot of good points.

What really stuck with me is the tv example though. The whole sitcoms as exceptions to the primarily male actors thing in particular, and having given that some thought what strikes me is that--

for the most part drama tends to focus on things like professions (cop, lawyer, etc) or story arcs dealing heavily with the "professional" world (what leaps to mind is Moonlight where the main character operates largely in connectin to the police & media)--and their male-dominatedness reflects the male privelege (sp?) prevalent in that world.

Sitcoms on the other hand, tend to focus on family & friends--which while certainly shaped by cultural forces are shaped by different cultural forces.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on why the sitcom/drama discrepency might arise.

And now my mind's drifting to superhero comics and role playing so I'll stop babbling now.